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Supernatural

This episode was entirely made of awesome.



Things I completely loved about this episode:

1. BOBBY! I can't decide which part I loved the most: all his hilarious-but-true advice to Sam and Dean (my favorite line had to be "If you're going to shoot, shoot, don't talk", but I also loved him calling them chuckleheads when they were having the theological debate); the fact that we got to see precisely how networked into the hunting community he actually is (And oh, Olivia, I knew you were a goner the moment we saw you being a kickass female hunter in the teaser); the fact that we got another snippet of his past with the creepy little girls; or the fact that he has a ghost-proof panic room. I loved it all.

2. Sam! I loved the character continuity that he actually doesn't have a problem believing in God and angels, even if he is perhaps calling on demonic powers to fight demons himself. And is it weird that I loved that he forgot the pie?

3. Dean!!! I love that Dean has his priorities so in order (Don't forget the pie!) that he's overcome the bad associations of sending Sam out alone for pie. More seriously, though, all his theological questioning was so in keeping with his whole attitude toward life from Houses of the Holy on forward, and he is asking the basic questions of theodicy, so it's not like there are any easy answers. I also really liked the fact that he doesn't actually think of himself as a hero, just an ordinary guy whose saving people is balanced, morally, by his stealing and ditching girls.

4. The plot: I really liked how the witnesses themselves underscore the theodicy question: how can a God of love exist and yet allow a world so full of evil? Because really, Meg and the little girls and Henriksen and, um, Nightshifter dude whose name I don't remember all really did get extremely bad breaks in their lives. And hearing Meg and Henriksen in particular talk about their torture by demons, and why does Dean get another chance when they didn't--OUCH. That resonates so well with the survivor guilt Dean is feeling right now.

Oh, Henriksen. I SO wish they had found a way to bring you back that didn't involve your actual death.

5. Ruby. I think it's really interesting what we found out from her and about her in this episode. From her: angels are badasses who kill first and ask questions later, and they probably don't think demons can be helpful, by definition. (Sam, you'd better watch out! Some angels may think a little demon blood + a little demonic power=someone asking to be smitten by an angel of the Lord, and not in that good Dean/Castiel way, either.) And about her: she's been going through hosts "for fun," and I think Sam must feel some guilt about associating with her because of that, because the witnesses seemed to focus their accusations on actual guilty feelings of the person they were talking to.

6. APOCALYPSE! But we can't follow Revelation as a map, because the version that's circulating is "the tourists version." Ok, not only is that explanation fun and in keeping with the "true apocalyptic texts are full of hidden secrets" kind of way, but it also gives the SPN writing crew license to do whatever the hell they want--which should be fun to watch. I mean, 66 seals instead of 7? That seems like an auspicious beginning of a plot arc to me.

oh yeah, and

7. LUCIFER will be unleashed. (Someone, I'm sure, is already writing the story where Lucifer is in fact "caged" somehow inside of Sam, right?) I love the continuity from last season--Dean asking wasn't Lucifer just a story in demon Sunday school--but I also loved Castiel's response.

And speaking of which,

8. CASTIEL being all badass and "we're fighting a war against demons with limited resources, so boohoo so sorry I can't hold your hand, and you better be a little more respectful, motherfucker, or I'll toss your disrespectful ass back in the pit" was pretty damn awesome, I thought.

My only complaint was that by mentioning angels hadn't been on earth for 2000 years, the show was leaning a LEETLE too close to specific Christian mythology for my comfort zone. At least if they just stick to God and angels you've got Judaism, Islam and Zoroastrianism still in play.

And OMG

9. THE PREVIEW FOR NEXT WEEK! SQUEE TIMES A BILLION! I'M SO EXCITED!!!!!!!

Comments

( 35 comments — Leave a comment )
enderwiggin24
Sep. 26th, 2008 12:00 pm (UTC)
ohh, please spoil me fo rthe preview!
I cant get youtube working on my job!!!



also, LOL, I was totally reading your "Zoroastrianism" into Zorroastrianism ..?!?!?
and was already typing to ask, what Zorro had to do with God... yup, my brain is a special place!
good thing, I looked up this time!
norwich36
Sep. 26th, 2008 03:52 pm (UTC)
Re: ohh, please spoil me fo rthe preview!
Castiel takes Dean on a time-travelling adventure into his family's past.

A religion centered on Zorro would certainly be interesting!
aha, thanks! - enderwiggin24 - Sep. 26th, 2008 04:19 pm (UTC) - Expand
ciaan
Sep. 26th, 2008 01:48 pm (UTC)
More seriously, though, all his theological questioning was so in keeping with his whole attitude toward life from Houses of the Holy on forward, and he is asking the basic questions of theodicy, so it's not like there are any easy answers.

Even more than that, because we saw it first explicitly as far back as Hookman and implicitly even in the pilot, and I appreciate the fact that the five page essay I wrote on Faith and Dean and faith in S1 is still true in every word. My love for Dean was full of love last night. Stay strong, Dean!

I also really liked the fact that he doesn't actually think of himself as a hero, just an ordinary guy whose saving people is balanced, morally, by his stealing and ditching girls.

Ha, for some reason I heard "dishing" and thought it was a funny use of the term, though I got what it was aiming at. Ditching is even more comprehensible and perfect.

And Sam, Sam, Sam, he might indeed want to be a bit more worried here.
norwich36
Sep. 26th, 2008 03:51 pm (UTC)
I wasn't sure myself, so I went back and watched it with the closed captioning on, and it said "ditching."

One thing you have to say about SPN, they are *very* good with the continuity, especially when it comes to core character traits like Dean's attitude toward faith.
rsadelle
Sep. 26th, 2008 03:55 pm (UTC)
I loved it that Castiel tells Dean that angels have been dying. Because that means a) there are more of them wandering around and b) they can die.

So is it just my perception, or has this show become way more about Dean than Sam?
norwich36
Sep. 26th, 2008 04:20 pm (UTC)
The fact that angels can actually die clearly shows that they're not just going with standard Judeo-Christian mythology, that's for sure.

A lot of people are complaining that we're not seeing enough Sam this season, and not getting his POV. I'm suspecting it's a deliberate writing choice and they're setting something up. Even Meg's accusations to Sam, about him consorting with Ruby and not caring how she's misusing hosts, sounds like a suspiciously Dean-like accusation. I think maybe we don't know everything Sam actually did while Dean was gone and they're setting the audience up to be in Dean's POV of being terribly suspicious/worried about Sam's demonic powers.
(no subject) - rsadelle - Sep. 26th, 2008 06:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - norwich36 - Sep. 26th, 2008 07:28 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - rsadelle - Sep. 26th, 2008 11:26 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - norwich36 - Sep. 26th, 2008 11:45 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - rsadelle - Sep. 27th, 2008 12:53 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - norwich36 - Sep. 28th, 2008 07:43 am (UTC) - Expand
roxymissrose
Sep. 26th, 2008 04:04 pm (UTC)
It worries me that Sam is so cavalier about the whole issue. He really thinks what he's doing is good and right, so heey, angels are no big deal and Ruby...I don't get that he trusts her that much.

I like the angel getting in Dean's face. It was interesting, and definitely made it clear that these angels were not the Hallmark variety.

Dean is so--I don't know the right word--naive? Innocent? He's very simple in his world view, in a way. I think it would be wrong for him to be accepting of his situation, especially as it's been driven home to them time after time that for everything you think you're getting there's some price you have to pay.
norwich36
Sep. 26th, 2008 04:16 pm (UTC)
I don't think Dean is just going to accept what Castiel is telling him, though--his faith issues are way too deep-seated for that.

I think it's an interesting writing choice that we're mostly learning about Sam's choices from the outside. I wonder if that's deliberate, if the writers have something up their sleeve.
(no subject) - roxymissrose - Sep. 26th, 2008 04:37 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - norwich36 - Sep. 26th, 2008 06:02 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - roxymissrose - Sep. 26th, 2008 09:51 pm (UTC) - Expand
mamadeb
Sep. 26th, 2008 04:22 pm (UTC)

My only complaint was that by mentioning angels hadn't been on earth for 2000 years, the show was leaning a LEETLE too close to specific Christian mythology for my comfort zone. At least if they just stick to God and angels you've got Judaism, Islam and Zoroastrianism still in play.


It's based on the book of Revelations. It involves an evil counterpart to Gd named Lucifer. It is Christian mythology. There's no place for any othe religion in at all.

This is, btw, as it should be.
norwich36
Sep. 26th, 2008 06:00 pm (UTC)
You're correct, they're using multiple Christian references to build their apocalypse.

I think my larger point is that Judaism, Islam and Zoroastrianism also have a tradition of apocalypticism (frankly most of what is written about angels in major world religions is somehow connected either specifically to apocalypticism or some sort of cosmic struggle between good and evil), and I personally would prefer the SPN-verse not to endorse a specific religious worldview as the true one. YMMV.

I recognize that they were already working out of a secularized Christian framework, like a lot of American pop culture (especially the horror genre), but they've also in the past explicitly drawn on non-Christian religions as well: the Vanir, the Trickster, the pagan Gods from "A Very Supernatural Christmas." This plotline does feel a little too explicitly Christian to me.
(no subject) - mamadeb - Sep. 26th, 2008 06:31 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ladydreamer - Sep. 26th, 2008 07:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - mamadeb - Sep. 26th, 2008 07:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - norwich36 - Sep. 26th, 2008 08:24 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - mamadeb - Sep. 26th, 2008 08:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ladydreamer - Sep. 26th, 2008 07:51 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - norwich36 - Sep. 26th, 2008 08:24 pm (UTC) - Expand
ladydreamer
Sep. 26th, 2008 07:58 pm (UTC)
I'm really loving this season so far. I was pretty chill with last season, until they killed my girl Bela (I still haven't watched that episode), but there's definitely been a rise in the squee here. I like the added depth of the theological questioning, even if I don't believe, mostly, in the paradigm they're using, since it's drawing "lore" from a miriad of sources.

3, 4. Yes yes yes. Pie and Dean. *wants to write crossover fic with Clark and Dean and pie*

7. *brain drifts to mpreg...*
*tries to lasso it back*

8. I don't think Castiel would REALLY throw him back into hell, because if his boss told him to take Dean out, he'd better STAY out, lest Castiel get smote! I did like him getting badass on Dean, though, and that their interpretation of angels (assuming they aren't going to pull a switcheroo and have Castiel be a fallen angel) is more in their warrior aspect and less fluffy dudes in white.
norwich36
Sep. 26th, 2008 08:26 pm (UTC)
Oh, I doubt very much that Castiel would send Dean to hell, either--but I liked the threat. For one thing, angels pretty much have to be a little menacing to play in the SPN-verse, don't they?

I was annoyed that they killed Bela too, though I did love the fact that she ended up having sold her soul. (Maybe some angel can raise her from perdition too?)
ladydreamer
Sep. 26th, 2008 08:32 pm (UTC)
Heheh. It's true. They really do.

I was actually thinking about ficcing that. I don't think it'll ever happen on the show, because it was my impression that they got rid of her because some fan groups were quite vocal about how much they hated her. It's fun to think about, though. :D
rsadelle
Oct. 2nd, 2008 08:43 pm (UTC)
I'm rewatching
I love how one of the things Dean thinks of when he thinks "apocalypse" is five-dollar-a-gallon gas.
norwich36
Oct. 2nd, 2008 09:15 pm (UTC)
Re: I'm rewatching
Well, considering the Impala probably gets what, 12 mpg? I can see why he might think that.

Hey, I have a work thing that's going to keep me from watching SPN live tonight. I don't know if you tend to save things you've taped or tape over them, but would you mind hanging on to your tape for a little while in case my VCR malfunctions? (I'll let you know tonight one way or another. Probably my VCR *won't* malfunction, but I am always paranoid.)
Re: I'm rewatching - rsadelle - Oct. 3rd, 2008 04:41 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: I'm rewatching - norwich36 - Oct. 3rd, 2008 08:40 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: I'm rewatching - rsadelle - Oct. 3rd, 2008 03:41 pm (UTC) - Expand
( 35 comments — Leave a comment )

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